SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Pugna, reconciliation is not something you choose to initiate.

You have betrayed, that means your partner doesn’t respect you, nor even the bare minimum, why should he care about what you want?

The mere fact that you wish to reconcile is for a cheater who is in the high of betrayal for, an infinite source of validation, which is what they are after with the cheating.

His brain says him "I am so great, so worthy, that even if I do the most disgusting things to her, she is still at my feet begging me to try again"

Here it’s how reconciliation works if it can.

1.The Bs gets betrayed
2. The bs finds out
3. The WS is ridden by shame and
3A. Keeps cheating
3B. Lay low and promise not to (but can still cheat or just wait to be out of the doghouse to cheat again
4 the bs responds to the betrayal and:
4A. Screw you, it’s over go to hell - hard 180 and prepare to divorce / split
4B. Does the pick me dance (what I am afraid you are doing)

Option B. Is usually the same results over and over. Blame shifting, lies, manipulation, keeps cheating and having zero respect for you. Pick me dance never works.

Option A.
This is where the BS reclaims agency and boundaries. The BS leaves and prepare to live without the dirty cheater.

To this the cheater either moves on and go with the affair partner (to cheat or be cheated upon)

Or

Feels lost as the validation disappears, they get scared and try to make amends and recover the relationship (here is where the WS asks for reconciliation)

To this we have then 5

5.A The bs ignores the cheater, leaves to heal and have a happy life, never to bother again with the ex wayward partner

5.B if the WS really seems remorseful and ready to crawl over broken glass to recover, the BS may decide to give them a second chance, IF they prove they can change and heal, becoming a safe partner. Reserves to be able to leave the WS at any time during the reconciliation if they don’t feel the WS does enough or just simply develop vomiting allergy towards the cheater.

In practice the WS begs to reconcile if they wake up from the fog and realize what they destroyed.
Th Bs is the one deciding, if when, and on which condition the reconciliation process will take place.

Anything else is the pick me dance and that doesn’t work, will only cause you miser.

PNY,

It’s only been a couple of weeks. You’re in shock right now. You can’t eat and can’t sleep, and you’re in emotional distress. Not the best circumstances for making big decisions.

Maybe you should rent an AirBNB or something for a few weeks / month to get away from him so your system can calm down. Go NC or LC during that time. You can tell him that he can use that time to figure out how he’s going to try to rebuild with you, starting by creating a written timeline of everything because this TT is destroying any hope of R. Most people can’t R without feeling like they have the whole truth. As they say, you can’t forgive what you don’t know about.

It might be that he needs to see you buy that ticket to Germany to get him to finally break and come fully clean, I don’t know. But I don’t think that after 2 weeks R is impossible UNLESS YOU THINK THAT.

The key is that you take charge. You’re the pilot of this plane. Take some time to figure out what you want. Are any of these things - the escorts, the porn, the TT - dealbreakers? Does he have what it takes to rebuild and R? Start calling your own shots here. Go see a lawyer and ask him about the legalities of moving out for a little while. Ask him about getting on that plane to Germany. See what those actions do to your legal position.

Hello,

Thank you all for the words.

Well today I found out even more. I always have to find evidence in his emails, he always says that's the truth but then more is coming out.

Today my heart broke again into million pieces.

The past days he insisted on that he always felt bad for seeing escorts. He told me he spent less money on it and less time. In and out, quick.

I found an email and saw a whole conversation. He's telling them how gorgeous they are and that he admires them. He spends a long time and "dates" with them even, buys them drinks and fruit. And he even texts them afterwards and sends them songs of his band.

He even told this escort he's married.... so they both happily cheated on me. He told her he wants her as his birthday present and spent over 2000 dollars on her last December while telling me we don't have much money for Christmas presents. While I was writing him a nice birthday card about how much I love him and that he's the best thing that happened to me in my life.

He's living a whole double life.
This doesn't sound like a sex addiction to me. Does this sound like a sex addiction to anyone?

He cheated on me all our marriage long. The number went up from 2 to 16 now. He spent over 11000 dollars on escorts in the past 6 years.

I have no idea what to do at this point... I'm so lost.
He's attending 12 steps sex addiction meetings.

I knew a girl who used to be a high end escort, worked as a model, high education, very kind and caring person so it was weird that choice, but that earned her better and also was "Safer" environment than modeling, no drugs, even less shitty people (likely for girls is different than for guys).

The point is that sex is just a part for escorts, they do provide the feeling of attention to their clients, positive atmosphere as playing the role of girlfriend, always focused and relaxed, to relax their client, make them feel comfortable and appreciated and confident so that he can bring out his personality without fear of judgement.

The sex is just a part and sometimes doesn’t even happen.
It is more escapism.

The escort is an actress that leaves out all her problems and stresses and dedicates herself fully to the client to make him feel a better man.

Now it is prostitution, no doubt about it, escorts are sex workers, if the client makes the moves for sex they will provide sex. It’s not the only item on the menu though, they get paid so much more because they provide the perfect illusion of a relationship with the client without any strings attached.
Of course there are clients who only get there for sex but usually is more of a "crafted experience" to give the illusion of a relationship.

Sex addicts would rather go for plain prostitutes and swingers clubs, orgies and that kind of stuff that not many can stomach, if that’s the case then I concur he might be a sex addict and that could work.

I would say, even if it’s hard to stomach and I told you the world "escort + husband" should never be in the same sentence unless it’s a ford escort we are talking about, you could try to understand what kind of escorts he is into.

The 11k suggests he is going for the kind of service that my acquaintance provided: if my hunch is right, is less of a sex addiction and more of a low self worth, lack of confidence issue with your partner.

He doesn’t feel like a worthy man, he goes to escort to get a confidence boost to go through life without fading into misery.

It’s still fucked up beyond recognition because he should not have this need for a "fantasy relationship " at all. He is not a single man who has nobody at his side and might need to feel connected with a woman (even if she is just an actress). He has you, his wife, and he should already have you filling his life so much he doesn’t even look at another woman, because he’s fulfilled by you.

And please sister, this is not about you or anything you might feel you are not providing him. Remember that the infidelity is 100% on him, not you, not any couple problem that might have been, those have zero to do with his choices.

I am explaining what his character flaws might be, he is so insecure, so low self worth than when the weight of the mask of "confident man" begins to crack he needs a fantasy to reboot himself and restart the cycle.

For some reason he is blocked to open to you and ask you to listen to his insecurities and soothe him into stopping to be afraid of his ghosts (which I am sure you would as you love him), so he resorts to escorts to escape and then show up more "confident " to you (however this is destructive to you so it’s completely stupid and twisted).

If you can find the issue the therapist can address it and maybe he can wake the fuck up from what he is doing

Thank you so much for this perspective.

He's still insisting that it's only about sex for him. But yes I think it's something different too.. like having his wife at home but wanting to have exciting date and sex meetings with girls that look like "porn stars".
He says he has a fetish for fake boobs and fake lips.
But would never want his wife to look like this.
It's the weirdest thing.

For some reason he never thought about a sex addiction before I caught him. He was happily cheating for 6 years. Didn't even make it 7 months without cheating after we got married.
So I don't know how much I can believe.

He's still crying and begging for me not to leave and wants a second chance and show me that he can change with therapy and 12 steps, tracking his phone, giving me all the money and cash, tracking his car, wants a copy of his phone for me.

I'm leaving in 4 weeks to Germany to attend to a wedding of my friend and I have no idea how I will survive that without crying because my marriage is broken.

Everytime we talk which is all day when he's home, I get a glimmer of hope and maybe there is a chance for him to change.

Everytime I go to bed, I wake up in the middle of the night with a pounding heart, reality kicks in and I see no reason to stay. How could I ever forgive this.

He even reached out to prostitutes the day I was attending my grandma's funeral in Germany.
How could he not have thought of me? This seems so evil.

I don't know how I will recover from this pain. It's too much.
It went from (to me) happpy marriage to nightmare within a day and ever since there's worse things coming out. It's worse than I could have ever imagined.
And I'm stuck here in the US because I gave my life in Germany up for him. This is the worst thing that could have ever happened 😪

I know some guys who go on an annual trip to Las Vegas. They’re middle-aged men, wives, children, good jobs, the whole thing. And when they go to Vegas, yes they gamble and eat fancy dinners and all that, but they also take cocaine and have sex with escorts and generally act wild.

They’re not addicts. No 12 step program would help them. Nor would a therapist, because they’re not doing this because something’s "wrong" with their brains. They do it because they think it’s fun. They’re just scumbags.

I don’t know about your husband. Maybe he’s got an addition. Has he been diagnosed by anyone other than himself? Like a qualified professional?

$11K is real money; you’re a victim of financial infidelity as well. You really, really need to speak to an attorney and start figuring out what steps to take to protect yourself monetarily while you consider whether you want to R or D.

I’m sorry you’re in so much pain. Please take care of yourself. Are you seeing a therapist? Have you found anyone in your life to talk to? I’m getting worried by some of your posting. You’re not thinking of hurting yourself right?

Hello,
I just found out a few days ago my husband was cheating. Everything was going great I thought and it would not surprise me if he had a few escorts. The person is only 35 years old my husband and I are 64. This disgusts me . I think all our cheating experiences are similar on here. Nice wife and then cheating double life husband. I’m in shock too and don’t know what to do. I feel like I’m having a nervous breakdown. It sounds like you’re young so time is on your side. I hope you can find your happy place and I hope I can find mine.
Brokenhearted

@letmebefrank

Thank you for worrying about me. I have thoughts like that but would/could never do it.

He hasn't seen a therapist yet, his first appointment is on Tuesday.
I will have an std test on Tuesday as well.

He diagnosed himself after taking a sex addiction test and basically he answered all questions with yes which meant 100% sex addict.
I answered them all too and my score was 0%.
I don't know how accurate a test on the internet is tho.

I'm going to see if I can find a lawyer. Is it called divorce lawyer? I'm unfamiliar with these things here as I'm not from here originally.

I'm talking to a therapist online but I feel like it's not helping at all...it's just like talking to a friend. I never had therapy before, is that normal?
I thought they give tools or analyze or have more insights.
Therapist said he sounds like a misogynist and violated me for years. It was definitely emotional abuse and keeping me from the truth all these years, couldn't make a decision that was healthy for me because I didn't know.

I also still have the feeling he might just be a scumbag. No addiction. Now that he got caught and has to face his consequences, he's crying and thinks he's a sex addict. Never before did he think about it for all our marriage long. Never cried, never thought he had a problem? Sounds weird to me. 16 escorts within 6 years of marriage and never thought he needed to stop? How could he even live with me or look at me.

@beginning
I'm so sorry this is happening to you too.
I understand your pain. It's the worst pain. Has your husband confessed?
It took mine over 2 weeks to confess "everything" and I still think there's more. I keep finding more evidence and lies.

I am glad to hear that you would / could never hurt yourself but even just having those ideas is something that must be taken seriously. There are people who are specially trained in helping with this. Look up some numbers of helplines and put them in your phone so you can call them if your mindset deteriorates. You’re still getting bad news and I don’t want you to learn something else that pushes you to the brink.

A good therapist is someone who can basically hold up a mirror to yourself and help you understand your own mind. Many of them do have good strategies to help you do this. If this guys isn’t helping find a new one. Try to find one who specializes in betrayal trauma.

Yes you would be looking for a divorce lawyer. Sometimes they bill themselves as "family law" practitioners.

I will say, it’s not that weird that he didn’t consider your marriage. It’s super common for cheaters to "compartmentalize". He just put you in a mental box that he kept completely separate from his escort behavior. It might explain why he’s such a mess now. The mental walls he put up have come crumbling down and the reality of what he did is flooding in and overwhelming him.

Hang in there you are living through the very worst part of it right now.

I used to be heavier than I am now. I think the words pleasingly plump described me then, but I decided I needed to take the weight off because I just wanted to look better and I hoped to feel better. It was an unbelievably hard job give up the food that I love, but I did it. While I was eating what I wanted to I ate healthy. It’s just that I added candy and cookies and too much bread and gravy and everything in the world that my body did not need, but I loved. It took me a few days to get past the craving, but I did it. Here’s the whole thing in a nutshell. I ate what I wanted to when I wanted to. I cannot blame my childhood which was fine. I cannot blame my marriage, which has been happy for a long time. I really cannot blame any outside influence. It was just that I like the food I was eating so I ate it.

Now translate that to somebody who goes to see escorts. They do it because they like to. Don’t try to find any underlying anything about sex addiction. You can give up anything if you want to badly enough and he obviously does not want to badly enough because he keeps doing it. At some point he’s either going age out and can’t do it anymore or he’s going die first. The last thing is, he might actually decide that he prefers his marriage whole and healthy rather than divorced and miserable. That’s up to him. You can’t make him do a darn thing.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 9:34 PM, Sunday, May 10th]

@letmebefrank
Thank you for your words and information. I really appreciate them.

I guess I will never understand how someone can just compartmentalize things like that.

I told a friend that's not really a very good friend, but I'm talking to her here and there so I felt called to talk to her. I don't want to tell my parents and best friends (yet).

That friend is trying to talk me out of everything, leave him immediately, moving back to Germany. She's saying he's a narcissist and what he's doing is common: crying to get me back and then continue cheating.
She even said she went to a medium friend and that medium told her that we will separate because he will find someone else. I really regret even telling her at this point.....
I never asked for a medium. I don't know...
I guess I need time to focus on myself. The more people I tell, the more confused I become.

Should I listen to friends or to my own (clouded) mind? I'm lost.

My husband is doing two sexaholic meetings a day.
He wants to show me he's taking it seriously and is trying all day, saying he wants a second chance.
He says he wants to support me for the rest of my life, he owes it to me, my family and his family. He wants to pay me the 11000 dollars back. Saying he's realizing that he abused me and wants to be a better man for me and himself.

@cooley
I totally understand what you're saying. This is what I tell him too..
If he didn't want to hurt me, why didn't he stop or not even start it?
He says he started, thought he could get away with it and because he could, he continued.

I really hate the situation I'm in. It's hard to let it all go and move back to Germany. It's hard to let him go because 3 weeks ago I thought he's the nicest husband and I was so grateful for him. Love of my life.... It's like it was too good to be true.

Hmmm, I can’t recommend relying on mediums for advice…

You should listen to your own mind. Only you can decide what to do with your life. You’re clouded right now and feeling confused. I think the best thing for you to do is read up on the 180 in the healing library to help you detach, because it seems like he’s smothering you right now. Maybe some time away from him will help clear your head. Observe his actions to see if they match his words. If you think it will help you, there are things you can do to keep tabs on him - don’t feel bad about that, he has no entitlement to privacy for so long as he wants to stay with you.

He sounds like he is really trying, to be honest. And I sense from you that of all the possible outcomes, a real change from him and a successful R is what you want the most. And that’s fine! You’ve got time to see if he can set his feet on the right path. If he’s doing everything he can to try to clean up his mess and drive R, that’s a good sign.

In the meantime, do the 180 to help you emotionally, engage in useful therapy to help you mentally, and talk to that lawyer about what some sensible near-term steps you can take to protect yourself from financial ruin.

Don’t forget to take care of yourself physically too. Set an alarm on your watch or phone if you must to remember to eat something. Make sure to be active as well, if anything exercise will help you sleep. Drink lots of water.

The more people I tell, the more confused I become.

I really understood this part as especially when you are already in shock too many opinions can make everything feel even louder and harder to sort through.

I am finding in my own situation that once other voices start coming in - it can become difficult to hear what is actually mine. I am also dealing with the shock of prostitutes being part of the picture and I know how sickening and disorientating that can feel. That does not mean your instincts are gone only that you may need a bit more quiet and time.

I would be very careful about letting things like mediums or other peoples certainty add even more confusion when you are already carrying so much. I do not think you need to know today what the rest of your life looks like - for now it may be enough to take care of yourself and watch what is actually in front of you over time. I am so sorry you are in this position.

I also do not think he’s a "sex addict" sounds like he’s just an asshole who is the most important person in his life and is going to do what he wants regardless of anybody else and their feelings.
I think it’s just an excuse he’s latched onto in an effort to keep you around and "help him solve his addiction."

I would tell you before making any decisions on what to do, give yourself some time to get your mind calm. It’s just hard to make the right one when you’re still numb and in shock from the discovery. Just too much brain fuzz.

What I tried to say explaining why escorts might not be a simple indicator of sex addiction, but might be worth thinking if he is not having a different kind of issue and uses escorts as a coping mechanism to "reset", is not that he is into expensive prostitutes or that he’s not a jerk for looking for sex with other women.

I suspect that he may be a people pleaser, just a hunch but if it’s right he doesn’t have a sex addiction, so the therapy will do nothing to change him (and maybe he doesn’t want to change, see later). If he is a people pleaser he might subscribe to the therapy knowing full well is worthless, doesn’t change him at all but it will calm you down, lower your guard, so he can resume the escort thing when he thinks he is out of the doghouse.

Meaning he is pretending to be remorseful but is really just shame, and thinking how to keep doing it without being caught

I also still have the feeling he might just be a scumbag. No addiction. Now that he got caught and has to face his consequences, he's crying and thinks he's a sex addict.

I think it's interesting that he's a touring musician in a band, yet he turns to prostitutes. I don't know what kind of band but the image that comes to mind immediately is a scene of groupies that throw themselves at musicians. I know we tend to think of certain kinds of music/bands that get this kind of attention, but I think it's probably more types of musicians than we think. Does this happen to his band? Does it happen to him? Does it happen to other guys in the band?

As for the sex "addiction", agree it's suspect. It's easy for him to answer the test to give him the result he wants. Let a therapist test him.

He wants to pay me the 11000 dollars back.

Good, take it. It'll give you options.

@letmebefrank

Thanks so much for your words.
I think you are right. My heart still wants him and is hoping for a happy ending (pun, because he went to massage parlors as well, in Europe and in California).
My mind is saying I should run, but my heart doesn't want to let this all go.. and because he's saying all the right things, I have hope. I don't know if he just knows what he has to say or if it's real and genuine.
It looks genuine...but he talked genuine the past 6 years too and nothing was true.

He's having his first therapy session right now. I'm in the car waiting for him. His mom told me to go with him to make sure he really goes to therapy, because nobody is trusting him anymore.
His mom is on my side.

@butterfly
Thanks so much for this perspective. I totally agree with you. I feel like I don't want people to tell me what to do and I want to listen to my own voice.
I'm sorry you're dealing with the same thing. Did you end up divorcing or did you give him another chance?

@backfromthestorm
I think I'm way more of a people pleaser than he is. He is selfish and loves to talk about himself and does what he wants. I think it comes from being in a band since he's 16 and having too much fame and money way too quick. Too many drugs. Too much alcohol.
I think he always got his way and that's why he does things in secret to get his way.
He says he cheated with escorts because he doesn't want to cheat with a real girl.
Why even cheat when you're married? I will never understand. He says he was in a dark place, he is lusting over porn and that leads him to check out escort sites and then maybe reaching out and booking them.

@sackofsorry
They used to have groupies but now that they are in their 30s/almost 40 there are not that many anymore.
He says he started going to brothels on tour when he was 18 and from that moment on he knew he could do these things.
It's so disgusting.

Update today:
I got tested for stds today snd bursted into tears there when the girl asked me questions.
It was so humiliating.
Even the doctor was shocked when I told them he slept with about 20 or more escorts in the past 6 years.

He is having his first therapy session right now.

One question that I have:
We still live together and talk all day when he's home.
He still wants to work it out and is doing sexaholic meetings every day. Says he knows what his problem is now and he never adressed this before. He has an awakening and he is at rock bottom and he has to change now for us and for me.

In my heart I still want him and hope to be happy again one day - although it's maybe stupid of me.
I don't want to start a new life AGAIN after just giving up my life in Germany..and leave the house and the dogs.

I'm having all these emotions, when I think about details again I get so angry and tell him that I want a divorce NOW.

How should I go about this? Should I tell him how I really feel or should I "pretend" that I want a divorce and we cancel our summer vacation and everything... i don't know if that's childish of me to want to "pretend" but many people here say the cheaters just change when they know they lost you.

I read the 180. I will try and do all that too.

Thanks for all the advice.

He says he was in a dark place, he is lusting over porn and that leads him to check out escort sites and then maybe reaching out and booking them.

What dark place was he in?

I don't know if you've done any reading on porn and its use, but it can be quite impressionable (? I don't know what word I want) for some. A little leads to a lot, the sort of "harmless" porn leads to more drastic porn, they become sort of immune and just click on endlessly, and then they start to think that the stuff they see in porn is normal. That everyone is just dropping their drawers and pleasing these people that they met, and I guess they start to think why isn't this happening to me? And then they start to make it happen.

And of course it is all such an illusion. I just wondered if the groupie thing was happening for the others and not for him, and he started to think why not me? But yes, it does make a weird kind of sense for him to want to use a "professional" because they think that's uncomplicated. Business. You're less likely to know. A jealous girlfriend/groupie might tell you. A prostitute? Not too likely.

My husband was, as you say, in a dark place as well. A lot of things happened in a short time - an international move twice, job loss, his mother died, career change (to one maybe not so "prestigious"?) He was watching too much porn. He started thinking that he "deserved" to be happier, he says he just "wanted to feel like a king for an hour." I could have made him feel like a king for an hour if he'd bothered to treat me like a queen or talked to me at all about how he was feeling.

Should I tell him how I really feel or should I "pretend" that I want a divorce and we cancel our summer vacation and everything... i don't know if that's childish of me to want to "pretend" but many people here say the cheaters just change when they know they lost you.

I'm not one to play games and pretend. Why should you pretend? That's just stress on top of stress, which you have enough of. I personally would cancel the summer vacation. I wouldn't want to go and try to be happy on vacation when I'm not feeling happy already. If you wanted to get away on your own to think and heal, great, do that. I wouldn't want to be trapped in a car or a hotel room or wherever with a wh at this time.

@SackofSorry

Ya he explained that his porn use lead him to want to do it in real life. He also seeked out the craziest looking ones. Fake boobs, fake lips, botox...all plastic. He says this is his fetish.

I look exactly the opposite. I'm all natural, I do not have big boobs. Sorry for too much info but ya, that breaks my heart. I feel like I wasn't good enough.

The groupies thing: I think it happened most to the singer. The singer was the superstar of the band. He unfortunately passed away 13 years ago. Ever since he passed, the band is not as big as they used to be. But they are still a big band in a certain genre.

I don't really know what dark place he was in. His dad died 2019. In 2023 I moved to him and we renovated the house and it was stressful.
2019-2022 we had a long distance relationship and just saw each other every 6 months.
Maybe he couldn't handle this.
Maybe this set it all off and was a dark time for him.

The first evidence of cheating I found was in 2021, 5 months after we got married.

Update:
He just had his first therapy session.
The therapist said that he shows typical addict behavior.
He was an addict all his life (from being in a band, even before that he experimented with drugs). I start to feel like this is normal in Southern California. I'm from a little village in Germany and never had contact to any drugs, except alcohol. Never had an addiction or problem with it.

Therapie said that addicts lie. Their brain tells them to do these things because it needs a high.

He stopped doing hard drugs once he was with me. He always said I made him better. I guess this backfired on me because he changed from hard drugs to sex and my biggest nightmare became reality.

For some reason I have a little bit of hope again....
But I don't want to downplay anything. The addiction still doesn't excuse his behavior.

Ya he explained that his porn use lead him to want to do it in real life. He also seeked out the craziest looking ones. Fake boobs, fake lips, botox...all plastic. He says this is his fetish.

I look exactly the opposite. I'm all natural, I do not have big boobs. Sorry for too much info but ya, that breaks my heart. I feel like I wasn't good enough.

I understand. We all understand. I think we all feel that way after this bomb drops despite the different circumstances. It's not about you or your boobs or any of your features. It's about him. It's hard to remember and believe, but it's true.

My h sought out "age-appropriate" prostitutes for the most part. He was in his 50's. He actually looked for escorts that were in his age range, except for one younger one who was a real bombshell who apparently stood him up. One of them that I saw on-line kind of looked like me, so I didn't even know how to take that. A few of them were rather unremarkable. Normalish, middle-aged women.

But the sad thing is that he sought out these "age-appropriate" prostitutes because he was afraid of rejection from younger, better looking ones (exactly what he experienced with that one younger bombshell). I mean, you're paying them, for crying out loud! They don't exactly reject people that are paying them, so it kind of speaks to how little he thought of himself.