SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi, I'm new here and I don't know which forum to post in so I thought I'd start here in General but please direct me to somewhere more suitable if appropriate. Here are the bare bones of my situation (I will add more detail once I know where best to do so).

- My wife and I have been together for 31 years, married for 21 of them.
- Last year she turned 50, and at her birthday party she had sexual relations with two other people.
- She confessed pretty much straight away and we entered into a fairly intense period of hysterical bonding.
- I am prone to overthinking and wanted to understand what it all meant.
- She is prone to compartmentalising, saw it as a stupid mistake and wanted to move on.
- For me this experience has made me count the blessings of our relationship, which are many, and this has made me fall in love with her all over again.
- For her she wants everything to go back to normal, and we have always lived quite independent lives.
- It's not the infidelity I'm finding difficult, it's the topsy turvy nature of our responses to it.
- I feel like I have to force myself to be distant to keep her from feeling smothered.
- I find myself second guessing whether she is less affectionate now, or whether it was always like this but more equal before (I think I've always been more affectionate than her).

Has anyone else been in a similar situation? How did you navigate it?

She wants to rugsweep, which is normal for a wayward. There is no way you are going to feel safe again if you don't understand why and how she made the decision to betray you. Which she absolutely did. Don't let her hide behind the word "mistake". This is because mistakes have way different levels of occurence. Putting salt into your coffee instead of sugar is a "mistake" but was not a decision. Fighting a landwar in Russia is a "mistake" and is a horrible decision. Your wife's ONS is somewhere in between, but she didn't do it on accident.

Why did she make the decisions she made? How will she avoid those decisions next time? What was the lead up to this event like?

STD test. Complete written timeline (polygraph to confirm no other instances of cheating).

Sorry you find yourself here. It’s the best club you never wanted to join. Read in the healing library. Don’t do the pick me dance or plead or beg her. It never works. Was this sexual encounter with two people pre-planned for her landmark birthday? Or was it a drunken tryst? She certainly did not consider your feelings before engaging in infidelity. Get tested for STD’s. Of course she wants to rugsweep. She does not seem remorseful. Take time to think what you want. Set your boundaries. You may decide that her actions are a deal-breaker for you. You have to process the trauma of being betrayed. Give yourself time to decide what you want to do. Watch her actions and not her words. Do not allow her to stonewall. Good luck.

She wants things to go back to normal because she doesn't want to be accountable for her actions. Few do. I can tell you from reading countless amounts of accounts, not addressing this will slowly eat you alive.

It's clear you want to make things work and it would seem you are fairly convinced that this is just an alcohol fueled isolated incident but nevertheless If I were you I'd be asking a lot of questions.

Firstly, where you at the party? Did this happen under your nose? If so that's a staggering level of disrespect.

Have you addressed why she did this? I'm sorry but having sex with two people in a night after a long marriage isn't forgetting to pick up milk. It's not just a stupid mistake. I like to think I've lived a full life with it's fair share of debortuary and have never stumbled into having sex with two people in one night, not even when I was free to do so.

Was this threesome with friends? Is she going to cut these friends out? Are you comfortable if she does not?

Have you attempted to ask how she thinks she'd react if the situation was reversed?

I'm a highly proactive person, I truly believe doing nothing is rarely the answer.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 9:28 AM, Tuesday, March 24th]

If we omit relationships that are open, or polyamorous or into swinging and focus on "normal" marriages:
For most "normal" people sex outside a marriage is a deviation from "norm".
As in – it’s probably more common for "normal" people not to do it.
Within the group that does have affairs, having multiple partners is pretty rare.
Having multiple partners the same night… THAT is definitely not common.

I would want to get to the bottom of that.
Did she take part in a threesome or was this two separate encounters same night?
Who were the participants? I’m guessing that at a party she hosts it’s people she knows. I’m also guessing it’s a comparable group to you (i.e. married couples).
Where did this happen? Living room or did they slink away?
Your home? Daily reminders and flags?

Was she excessively drunk? Maybe to the point of not being capable of reasonable consent?

This isn’t a mistake. Let’s be clear on that. Maybe not pulling back from a kiss might be a "mistake", but sex with two people…

I think you need to get to the truth.

With most situations it is helpful to confirm that you have a shared goal and then discuss and agree to how you're going to get to that goal despite having different points of view of how that will work. I believe that applies strongly here.

I would consider a conversation where you ask her to confirm that her goal is to have a strong enduring marriage. If she agrees and that is your goal as well then you can talk about how do we get to that point. And of course you'll have to share that you need to talk through this more to heal from what happened and you may also feel that she needs to understand what caused her to do this because it can't happen again if the marriage is to endure. Those two Notions mean you can't rug sweep this because it will undermine a strong enduring marriage. Rug sweeping may work for a year or 5 years or even a little longer but eventually those issues will come back and potentially really upset the apple cart much more than they would if you dealt with the issue now.

There is a book called how to help your spouse heal after your affair that might help your wife understand the Dynamics of what she did and the impact on you and the relationship. Has she done any reading at all about healing after infidelity? Has she done any work or even considered the fact that for some reason she is an unsafe partner in the marriage and she needs to figure that out so it doesn't happen again?

And forgive me for my curiosity but how did she sleep with two people on her 50th birthday party? Were you somehow not invited or absent that day?

Thank you all for your replies.

The distinction I would draw between a mistake and an accident is that you *make* a mistake whereas an accident *happens* to you. I don't think this happened by accident, which is why I straightaway wanted to understand what it all meant. She thinks she was perimenopausal and in mild midlife crisis and it won't happen again.

There were two separate incidents that night. One was with another woman, and one with a man. The former went as far as two women can go, but the latter went no further than that, as far as I now know.

Both are friends of ours. Both are married to other friends of ours. One of the things that frustrates me most is that she doesn't really face up to how she has wronged the other halves. Mind you, she is not the only person either OW or OM has cheated with. (She knew this about OW, but not about OM at the time.)

My overriding immediate response was of relief that she had told me.

Having said that, she could hardly have avoided telling me about OW. I had been making cocktails for our guests in the kitchen but later came into another room and found her and OW kissing very passionately and publicly. I froze and left the room. I went to the loo to gather myself. I returned and they were gone. With a sense of dread I went up to our bedroom and found them in there, already half undressed.

I should mention that 20 years ago, this had happened before with the same woman. I had put it down to the youthful experimentation she would have had if we had not got together so early in our lives (she had never had any sexual partners before me). I should also mention that this woman had also made passes at me, and I had been sorely tempted, so I sympathised somewhat.

But back to me standing at the door of our bedroom. My wife came and kissed me but told me she was "just feeling into [OW] right now". Still in shock, I left the room. I did not go back. I avoided her for the rest of the night. She went to bed before I did. When the last of the guests had left, I went to bed in the spare room.

I did not sleep. After about half an hour, she came to the spare room. She had clearly not slept either. She was very ashamed. She told me what she had done with OW, and then told me about OM. With him she had kissed and they had put their hands in each other's clothing (I did not ask for details). I was glad she had been truthful about it. She was desperately amorous, and I really needed to feel close to her, so we made love.

For the next few days I was just trying to make sense of everything. I told her how much I valued her honestly and this prompted her to admit that things had actually gone further than she had admitted with OM. He had gone down on her. This is when it started to feel wrong for her, and she had shut it down with him.

It also transpired that things had gone further with a colleague of hers than I had previously known. The weekend before the party she had told me that she had kissed this colleague (let's call him OM2, even though he was actually prior) on a couple of occasions when they were drunk and flirting had gone too far. I had taken this somewhat in my stride because she was basically telling me it was over now (although admittedly this seems like it was more because of the wife's suspicions than her own regret or his). In the aftermath of the party, when I was trying to impress on her how much I wanted her never to keep something from me just because she was ashamed by it, she took the opportunity to tell me that she and OM2 had also been pretty handsy with each other.

I know how all of this sounds. You must think I'm kidding myself. But I believe that this is the extent of it. And if that's true, it doesn't even come close to threatening our marriage. I'm a pragmatist. I don't have any great moral attachment to monogamy. This was not a prolonged affair. It was a mistake. Not an accident, but something to be learned from.

As I mentioned, the overall effect of this has been to make me fall in love with her all over again. To start with, I think she needed this hysterical bonding too. But I was needy with it, which we've never really experienced in our relationship before. We've always been fiercely independent as well as extremely close -- which works when you want each other but don't need each other. But my limerence started to give her the ick. I understood this and toned it down, but in truth I've just been masking it.

To some extent, like her I just want things to go back to the way they were. But for me they cannot. I cannot compartmentalise it like she can. I sometimes wonder if I'm idolising her as a defence mechanism. Whether this will all come crashing down at some point. We've always been able to talk about anything, but we can't talk about this, which is maybe what hurts the most. Also the things that have made our relationship work are more difficult for me now. I've always felt that a person should be able to have their private life -- for example that she should be free to flirt if she doesn't rub it in my face. But I feel that was maybe predicated on being able to talk to her about anything. But what if she comes to resent me not wanting to be so independent now? I have genuinely valued that aspect of our marriage over the decades. But something has changed now, and I don't know how to deal with it. It's been seven months and it doesn't feel like it's getting much easier.

Seeing as how this was in the open:
What has the reaction been amongst your friends?
What about this OM at the party? Married? Was it as obvious to others as the woman she made out with? That woman married? Her husband fine with what happened?

I’m trying to gauge the room per se. Is this a group that is OK with getting drunk and making out or are we talking about something outside the norm for this group?

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You can’t make this go away.

Look – You and your wife can decide as a couple where the boundaries are within your marriage. You might OK her going to parties and making out with other people. Maybe the crowd that you are in is open to all that. Swinging, open relationship, hotwife… whatever rocks your boat and you are BOTH OK with. Once something is accepted, agreed on and expected in a marriage it’s no longer infidelity.
If your only goal is to make this go away… then that’s your path… a certain surrender if you aren’t happy with it. Just set enforceable limitations (use a condom, take regular STI tests, not too public, shower when you come home and whatever) and then feel grateful to remain married.
Another general rule for those that live that lifestyle is some sort of "no drama" rule. So if OM 1 or 2 is into your wife, then their spouses need to know and also be open to the concept.

If that doesn’t sound good… well… change is needed.
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Sounds like all instances are alcohol connected…
There is a sub-category of alcoholic women who loose or lower all inhibitions when under the influence. I know of this group because my wife’s best friend went to rehab about 25 years ago and has been in AA since. We were so surprised, because in the 10 years previous we had known her we hadn’t noticed the classic, typical alcoholic behaviors. She shared that she might only drink several times per year, but more-likely-than not end the evening having made out with random men and waking up in the wrong bed. She couldn’t control it once past a certain drink… Really bothered her husband, but ironically enough they divorced because of his affairs…
She told me that she was attending an AA group, female only, that all shared the same pattern. Not the classic drink-all-weekends, nor a bottle of Chablis per evening, but rather WHEN they drank this is how they reacted.
Might that apply to your wife?

The public kissing with OW happened in a smaller space slightly removed from the main party. There were probably 3 or 4 other people in the room. I only remember who one of them was, either because I didn't know the others (there were quite a lot of people at the party who my wife knew through work) or because I immediately went into some sort of dissociative state. I spoke a few days after the party to the one I remembered. He's a friend, but not a particularly close one. I didn't want to get into any meaning, just to establish the facts. I think maybe he moves in fairly liberal circles because he didn't seem super shocked. I think one of the other ones might have been a colleague. We had another party last month and he tried it on with WW (she shut him down).

The OM is married and is a very close friend, as is his wife. She was not at the party. They have a largely sexless marriage and I know that he has had an affair (not ongoing). I don't want to get involved.
The OW is married and is a good friend, as is her husband. He was at the party, but had left early. She has always been wayward, and their marriage has survived infidelity within our friend group (albeit some time ago). As far as I know, he doesn't know about this particular incident.

I'm not okay with any of this, although if WW had invited me into the room with OW, it would have taken all of my willpower to decline. I think in a different life I could have been polyamorous, but in this life I chose WW who wanted monogamy. Ironic.

Alcohol has never been a problem before. Maybe alcohol plus perimenopausal hormones is the tipping point.

IMO, your choices are 1) rugsweep, 2) stuff your feelings, or 3) talk it out.

Rugsweeping and stuffing your feelings are probably the same. They probably won't work. Your feelings will just fester and come out in a way you don't like in some unknown number of weeks, months, or years.

You've got thoughts, feelings, questions, concerns. If your W won't communicate in response - or if she won't listen - do you really want her? Maybe your mutual wants and needs don't match well enough to support M any more.

Your post says there's more to her cheating than just a single drunken pair of ONSes. IMO, she needs to look into herself to find out if she's willing to be monogamous.

You have to figure out if you want monogamy, too. Falling in love with a WS before they've changed from cheater to good partner seems unhealthy to me; it's also rare - unless you meant that you're still in love with her. That's pretty common, and it can be a good start to R, though love is definitely not enough to complete R.

Like Bigger, I can understand all sorts of arrangements between freely consenting adults, but if 2 people have different boundaries about what they'll consent to freely, I'd wonder how long and how happily they can stay together. In theory, one partner could fuck anything that moves any many things that don't while the other partner is happily monogamous, but theory doesn't always work in practice.

The highest priority issue seems to me to be that you and your W are colliding on the issue of talking about what she has done. One of you will have to give in to the other or choose to D. I think your mental health will benefit from not wavering. I believe healing is possible for the BS eve if the WS clams up, but R requires coming clean and building a 'no lies' relationship.