SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

We understandably hear a lot about our addiction to External Validation

It struck me this morning that coming on here to post as a Wayward is maybe feeding the Beast?

Instead of feeding the Attention Beast we could be helping clean up our elderly neighbour's front garden for them.

At the same time self judgment on how we choose to spend our time seems to keep us trapped as well.

What are your thoughts on this?

What's the poster’s intention? What is their outcome?

Posting here when you’re doing the work is about exposing your patterns, getting reality checks, learning accountability, and building the internal skills you didn’t have before. That’s not feeding the Beast. That’s starving it.

I see this is your first post and you just signed up, so I’m curious what’s underneath the question for you. Are you worried that if you start posting here, it might pull you into the same patterns you’re trying to break the highs, the attention loops, the external validation stuff?

If that’s the concern, name it plainly. Because the only way to break a pattern is to look at it directly, not dance around it. Posting here isn’t the issue. How you use the space is what matters.

Yeah, I'm new here but I'm not new to Infidelity or Relationship forums in general.

I'm trying to break the attention seeking / self absorption loops.

The forums seem to reinforce it. But I like to dabble and lurk and sometimes post to 'tests my thinking'.

Ultimately there is also a fair amount of self flagellation around. I have indulged in that myself and now see it as not getting me further towards my ultimate goal which is to be cool and chill with the world and whatever it throws at me.

The thought just struck me this morning - forums have a double edged sword because they can further my existing issues. Until now I believed they were 100% helpful especially 'well frequented' one like this one.

Ultimately there are many good behavioural coaches out there but it costs a lot of money to have individual tailored therapy on your sucky behaviours. I'm too mean/stingy to spend the thousands required so I frequent the free forums and post a bit. I listen to the coaches on free podcasts, as so much of what they say is applicable to anyone.

I miss a bit having my weak spots mirrored to me.

[This message edited by BoiledEggs at 11:44 AM, Friday, June 26th]

What kind of things are you reading here that you're perceiving as validation?

"I feel your pain" etc

Or even just a response.

I find the attention can get addictive.

So just feeding the unpleasant habits I had that were partly responsible for being shitty.

I KNOW what it takes to not be shitty. Explain your feelings and thoughts with I think and I feel. Don't hide shit from your partner if you know they would be upset by it. Show up reliably. Be generous. Express appreciation. Etc.

I find when you have a Clingier relating style, let's say connection hungry, it's easy to get into social media back and forth to fulfill it.

OK, so that's better than chatting to some affair partner. But isn't it just feeding the same type of "who will listen to needy old me?" BS. You're catching me at it now

Does anyone else think this is problematic for them? Or is it just me.

[This message edited by BoiledEggs at 2:04 PM, Friday, June 26th]

Sometimes it's hard to be alone with heavy feelings. It can ease the loneliness of it to know that other people are going through the same.

A recent theme I've noticed here is that BS are expressing exhaustion from trying to hear and understand their WS reasons and side of things, and support them through their journeys toward changing. (Which like, maybe should have been obvious to me, but unfortunately was not. I'm glad they're speaking up.)

Do you have platonic friends IRL you could talk with? Our spouses are not meant to fill every role and be our only source of support and social interaction (a hard lesson I'm learning myself.) That's too much responsibility to pin on one person. Humans are meant to have a social network over which they can spread the... I don't want to say "burden," because I don't like the connotation that normal emotional/psychological/social needs are "burdensome..." but I guess what I means is that we're meant to spread the "emotional labor" required of supporting us across that social network, so that it doesn't overwhelm any one person, while also providing that support back in ways that don't overwhelm us... Online forums can sometimes be used as a convenient substitute, though definitely not a perfect one.

But only you know why you go on them, and whether that's healthy for you, and it's good that you're introspecting about it.

Personally I have struggled with addiction to social media, and I used to go online seeking arguments with people over topics I felt passionate about, I think just to feel that adrenaline rush. But what also came along with it was cortisol spikes and hours wasted, and I was neglecting real life. I still struggle with it sometimes, but for the most part, I've gotten off of almost all social media, and I'm learning when it's best to walk away and seek a healthier form of stimulation. Changing your habits is all about identifying them, recognizing them in the moments, pausing and figuring out what you need, and finding a better way to meet that need.

Posting here doesn’t automatically reinforce attention seeking unless that’s the intention behind it. SI isn’t built to give anyone a "hit", honestly, it’s the opposite. Nothing has made me more uncomfortable than posting here while trying to get my shit together.

IMHO what you’re describing isn’t really about forums themselves. It’s about how you use them. Any space, talking to your IC, your mama, your friends, can turn into an attention loop if the goal is to soothe discomfort instead of build skills.

Yes you're right, well expressed.

Thanks!

I hear you on this, because I too questioned this earlier in my journey.

I never reached any conclusions about it really. I think even if there were elements to it any any point, what I gained from this site ended up being valuable, still is valuable. Our motivations can change over time.

I am mostly saying this because it’s okay if you stumble into something that ends up being good for you. People are fallible. Often we are unaware of our own motivations until we pay close attention to it. And even then one must own into being honest with themself rather than telling the narrative that would fit our version of a good person.

We are all gradients of shadows and light. The fact you are hear trying to question your shadows, I would tell you getting connection is not the same as validation.

In fact, the root of a lot of my issues and many of you here is I starved myself of connection through giving into my avoidance. I went looking elsewhere for it. I didn’t find it there either. It had to start with me. When I truly opened that valve and started to learn how to connect, it changed my relationship with people in general. Instead of being transactional for love and validation, I have learned connection that has benefitted every relationship that I have because all the value is placed on that connection rather than giving to get a reward.

I don’t imagine anyone comes to this site, willingly talks about their struggles and darkness is going to get enough validation here to keep them around. But if you find connection here, that’s a bigger magnet.

It sounds like you are trying to use the resources you have available and I would maybe just set your intentions mentally. It does help frame the experience.

Hi BoiledEggs, I think that being intentional in how you use the forums is a good idea.

I miss a bit having my weak spots mirrored to me.

I think that you can get this if you ask for it. Write out your story or whatever part you are puzzling over and ask for a hard critique, without the stop sign. I think you will get it. I finding it interesting that you wrote this under a stop sign. No stop sign/wayward forum if the first step toward getting a stronger critique. Maybe you are new and not very sophisticated but maybe you are of two minds - you want the critique but there's a protective part of you that doesn't want it. Reconciliation forum is next, then General, in order of how strong the critique is likely to be.

You can also ask specific posters to respond to you. BSR is insightful and can be quite pointed. I don't think it would be breaking rules to name check her in your subject line or use her as an example of the kind of feedback you want. I'm thinking more of the BSR2019 version of her - perhaps it's just me, but she seems a leetle bit softer than she used to be. Maybe because of her own distance from infidelity, or maybe adaptation to the vibe of the forums. I think the forums have a pendulum dynamic. They get harsh and then swing back toward more gentle. This feels like a gentler moment over the course of the eight year's I've been here.

Just a few more thoughts on the topic of external validation. Two thoughts actually. The first - the question of whether or not something is good or bad always reminds me of a time in one of my daughter's late teen years. She experiences stress like a brick in her stomach. It makes her mildly nauseous. She had a very stressful senior year of high school, and the stress made her start losing weight. She wasn't very big to begin with, and as she lost more and more weight, I got very worried. She was down to 92 lbs (at 5'2") and finally started seeing a nutritionist. The nutritionist was AMAZING. She didn't tell her that what she was eating was awful for her. The nutritionist had her write out what she was eating during the day - half a coffee and half a croissant for breakfast, a bag of skittles for lunch, etc - and then had her make minor tweaks to get her going in a better direction. Milk in the coffee. A Snickers bar instead of skittles. They would meet twice a week, look at her food logs, and she would give her the next step. So when someone asks if something is good or bad, I have the parallel question running in my head - is a Snickers bar healthy or not healthy? It is obviously not healthy, but for my daughter, it was a healthy choice as she progressed. Is external validation from SI forums healthy or not healthy? It could be extremely healthy, depending on where you are coming from. I remember writing incessantly - incessantly - on SI when I was trying to rid my brain of thoughts of the AP. It was a step.

Humans are social creatures. We require social interaction and validation, especially when we are very young and as we are growing up. I remember vividly a brief and powerful psychological demonstration video from college. A mother was interacting with her baby - maybe three months old - smiling, eye contact, cooing, all the mommy stuff. The baby responded as babies do (at least when they are not tired, hungry, wet etc) - very cute. After half a minute, the mother turned her face blank. She still looked at the baby, but did not verbally respond or make any kind of facial expression. It took only a few seconds for the baby to begin to show increasing distress. The baby looked away from the mother, then back briefly to see if she was still blank. The baby began to fuss and then cry. Thank goodness the video didn't last long.

We are not babies, obviously, but external validation is essential to our humanity. I think some people get so much when they are young, and from such reliable sources, that they carry it deep within themselves and it is protective. They just know they are delightful, important, worthy of attention and care, valuable, and that can mean that they are less vulnerable to poor sources later on. I think there's a temperamental component - some people may be more wired to need external validation in higher doses or more frequency. The key thing - and others have said this more succinctly in this thread - is to know yourself and be alert to the sources of external validation. Where are you most vulnerable and where are you secure? Where do you go looking for validation and what do you do when you don't get it? Do you have a clear idea of what you want to become, and can you share that with trusted friends and ask them to tell you when you are doing well and also when you are not doing well?

I see signs of you being reflective in this thread, thinking about your behavior and reflecting on it. But there's also a bit of black and white judgmental thinking that probably won't serve you well in the long run.

Until now I believed they were 100% helpful especially 'well frequented' one like this one.

I'm not a relativist but I am also not a black and white thinker. I am having a hard time thinking of something that is 100% helpful. Not posting on 'well frequented' forums, not going to church, I can't think of anything that is, in and of itself, reliably helpful outside of motive. I also can't think of something where some good can't be found in it. See: Snickers, and recent lengthy Love Island musings.

Ultimately there is also a fair amount of self flagellation around. I have indulged in that myself . . .

Can you write about things you have engaged in descriptive rather than judgmental language? ("indulged").

and now see it as not getting me further towards my ultimate goal which is to be cool and chill with the world and whatever it throws at me.

Having a goal is awesome! Without goals how do we know how we are doing?! but let's talk about that goal, shall we . . . I wouldn't want to be cool and chill with injustice, or tyranny, or other evil stuff. How do you feel about writing a second draft of your goals?

[This message edited by Pippin at 5:05 PM, Sunday, July 5th]